LEILA FADEL, HOST:
A visit from the Saudi crown prince to Washington this week generated many, many billions of dollars in business deals between Saudi Arabia and the U.S. President Trump has sought to nurture a business relationship with the kingdom since his first term, but it's sometimes unclear whether that's for the benefit of the U.S. or his family business. For insights into this, I'm joined by Dan Alexander. He's a senior editor at Forbes, where he covers billionaires. Dan, good morning, and thank you for being on the program.
DAN ALEXANDER: Hey. Thank you for having me.
FADEL: So this week, while the crown prince was in Washington, Trump said his family has done, quote, "very little," unquote, business in Saudi Arabia. Is that statement true?
ALEXANDER: No, it's not true. If you look at The Trump Organization, you know, it's broken down in different parts, and in many of those parts, Saudi Arabia has some involvement. So first, if you look at the real estate licensing empire, this is sort of the part of the business that puts Trump's name on buildings all across the world. Much of the growth of that business has come from a Saudi firm called DarGlobal. They paid him about $21 million last year. Looks like they're going to pay him at least that much this year, and there are rumors of more deals down the line. That's one component.
Then you have the golf business. It had lost the ability to attract major professional golf tournaments after January 6. The PGA Tour and The Royal and Ancient, which oversees the British Open, both said basically, hey, we're done with this for the time being. And then LIV Golf steps in, which is backed by the Saudi government. LIV Golf starts bringing many of its tournaments - they've already held seven; there's an eighth coming up in the next year - at Trump properties. That provides some cash for The Trump Organization, but more importantly provides relevance for that part of the business.
FADEL: Has Trump's family business benefited from his political relationship as president with Saudi Arabia?
ALEXANDER: If you look at the set of facts, it's hard to argue that it hasn't. I mean, The Trump Organization, without a political aspect to it these days - do you really think that Trump is going to be doing, you know, tens of millions of dollars of business in Saudi Arabia? When if you compare to before politics, you know, they were scrambling to get their hands on just a couple million dollars in sort of random countries around the world. If you look at where the business is growing, there's a lot of overlap with the countries that see the Trump administration as really important to its objectives, and that's true in the Middle East.
FADEL: Does the Trumps' family financial entanglements with the kingdom have any benefits for the American public? I mean, is this just about the bottom line for his businesses, or could it be a larger beneficial thing for the country?
ALEXANDER: Well, what Jared Kushner, who has taken $2 billion into his private equity from the Saudi government, argues is that sort of this crossing over of business and government relationships can be beneficial. Because when they're dealing with major concerns - for example, trying to set a peace deal in Gaza - he can call up all of these leaders who he knows from the business world and also has a government relationship with. So you could make that argument. Of course, there are plenty of people in the ethics community who would say, wait a second. All that means is we don't know where your alliances are and what motivations are driving you. Whereas, typically, we can trust that U.S. politicians are acting solely in the interests of the American people.
FADEL: Because you don't know if this is about the money or the interests of the country.
ALEXANDER: Yeah. We know it's about the money. We don't know about whose money. Is it about - is it money for the American public? In other words, are they just making large investments in the U.S., and that's a good thing? Or is it also that they're making large investments in Trump family projects?
FADEL: And really quickly, I mean, who would you say is the bigger - biggest winner after this week's meeting - Saudi Arabia or the U.S.?
ALEXANDER: In the short term, it looks like they both have something to gain. Saudi Arabia sort of regains its prominence after losing much of the world following the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. The U.S. gets a ton of money. The question is, does China also win? Saudi Arabia has a relationship with China. If they get too cozy and the U.S. is a little too loose with some of this stuff, you could see American technology making its way to China.
FADEL: Dan Alexander is a senior editor for Forbes. He wrote the book "White House, Inc.: How Donald Trump Turned The Presidency Into A Business." Thank you for your time.
ALEXANDER: Thank you.
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