(SOUNDBITE OF TONI BRAXTON SONG, "HE WASN'T MAN ENOUGH")
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Toni Braxton was one of the biggest hitmakers of the 1990s into the 2000s, but more recently, she's found success in the movies. She developed a unique partnership with the Lifetime Network, producing and starring in movies, some based on her songs. I spoke with Toni Braxton about her latest, inspired by this hit from 2000 - "He Wasn't Man Enough."
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HE WASN'T MAN ENOUGH")
TONI BRAXTON: (Singing) Do you know I made him leave? Do you know he begged to stay with me? He wasn't man enough for me. Oh, yeah.
MARTIN: I didn't watch it with my husband. I was going to say, is this one of these that - I think I would watch with my friends, OK?
BRAXTON: This is not a husband one.
MARTIN: No.
BRAXTON: It's a real girls' girls movie. This is an estrogen movie.
MARTIN: Here's a clip.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HE WASN'T MAN ENOUGH")
BRAXTON: (As Mel) I don't believe that you would hide the fact that you're dating my ex.
ESSENCE ATKINS: (As Monica) Wait. What?
BRAXTON: (As Mel) Your new fiance? The man I spent the last 2 1/2 years with, who was leeching off of me. Now he's doing the exact same thing to you.
MARTIN: So, you know, you've been working with Lifetime for 10 years now, right?
BRAXTON: Yeah.
MARTIN: How did you go from singer-songwriter to movie mogul?
BRAXTON: You know, I kind of stumbled. I've always loved TV. I love movies and watching them and everything about it. As a kid, you know, we were very religious, but we could watch TV and watch movies. We couldn't go to the movies, but we could watch it at home. So I - of course, I fell in love with him. Me and my family - we would watch movies all the time.
MARTIN: We found this clip of an interview with you from back in the day.
BRAXTON: Oh, my gosh.
MARTIN: This is what you said. Listen to this.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
BRAXTON: For me, you know, I've always considered myself, like, the music Lifetime channel for women.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (Laughter).
BRAXTON: You know, women can listen to my music and get inspired and know that we can make it, and it's all right. And just stuff especially for us.
BRAXTON: Kind of true.
MARTIN: It's kind of like you already knew. I mean, this was...
BRAXTON: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...Years before you started working with Lifetime. It's kind of like you knew that Lifetime was in your future.
BRAXTON: I think maybe I did, you know? I think my stories - when they said, we wanted to do movies on your song titles, I've always thought my songs were very girl-friendly. And what is Lifetime about? It's about women - movies for women about women, you know, promoting women. So it's perfect. I feel like I'm at home.
MARTIN: I wondered if you consciously pivoted away from singing and touring to this chapter.
BRAXTON: You know, sometimes the universe works things out that way for you. And in addition, having - getting something - I have lupus, and it made it challenging for me touring and performing and things like that. And even though I can still do it, I can't do it the way I did when I was younger because my body won't allow me. But having an opportunity to do movies is something I've always wanted to do, but was afraid to do it. And I think Lifetime gave me that push and took the fear away. Like, we want you to be in this movie. Let's try it. And I fell in love with it at hello.
MARTIN: Was - you know, one of the things I've always wanted to ask you - is being a sex symbol exhausting? It just seems exhausting.
BRAXTON: You know, it's not really who I am in real life. People say I'm sexy. I don't feel sexy. I'm 5'1''...
MARTIN: I don't know that that...
BRAXTON: ...113 pounds...
MARTIN: I don't know that that was the marker of...
BRAXTON: ...A B cup.
MARTIN: I think it was the eyes. I think it was the focus, the intensity. But I just felt like having to always present a certain way - we want you to be the fantasy object - and it just seemed like - I don't know. It just seemed tiring to me.
BRAXTON: I - you know what? I think my generation was the diamond era of music. That's when everything was glossy and beautiful, and every artist had to have an image. So artist development was very important in my generation. Not so much now, but, you know, artists standing behind a microphone. I remember 'cause I played piano, and Clive Davis said, not the era to play behind a piano. Stand in front of a microphone. So if you think about artists like Aretha Franklin, who played piano, you remember in the '90s, she did not play behind the piano. She was standing in front of a microphone. Even Carole King and people like that - they stopped playing. They was just singing.
MARTIN: Wow. You're right. Now that you think of it, I see you're - exactly what you're saying. Wow.
So talk about this movie. Tell us about your character, Mel, and the fix that she is in.
BRAXTON: Mel is a confident woman, you know, hanging out with her girlfriends from college. We love each other, and what separates girls sometime? A man (laughter). A dude, you know? And even though we love each other, that one guy, that little bit of testosterone, can kind of disrupt us a bit. So sometimes women get upset with each other when we should be upset with the guy.
MARTIN: Some of the lines in this film are just brutal. You're having an argument with your then-man.
BRAXTON: (Laughter).
MARTIN: And he's...
BRAXTON: Yes.
MARTIN: And it's a simple thing. I mean, it's a kind of a scenario a lot of us have found ourselves in. Like, you trying to...
BRAXTON: Yeah.
MARTIN: Like, where - you're late. Where are you? I'm calling. You're not answering. Like, what's going on? I'll just play this little bit here.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "HE WASN'T MAN ENOUGH")
BRAXTON: (As Mel) If you had just a little bit of consideration for me and returned any of my calls, any of my texts, we wouldn't even be having this conversation now.
THOMAS CADROT: (As Richard) You see this? This right here is exactly why women your age end up alone.
BRAXTON: (As Mel) Women...
CADROT: (As Richard) Because can't nobody tell you nothing. You don't listen. I'm here trying to tell you what I need.
BRAXTON: (As Mel) Did you say women my age?
CADROT: (As Richard) Yes.
MARTIN: Ooh. Brutal.
BRAXTON: Yeah, that hurt. That hurt.
MARTIN: Ooh.
BRAXTON: That was real.
MARTIN: Ooh.
BRAXTON: Yeah.
MARTIN: I feel like somebody's heard that before. I mean, I know that...
BRAXTON: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...You weren't the writer on this, but I feel like somebody's heard that before.
BRAXTON: But there was stories. You know, it was...
MARTIN: Yeah.
BRAXTON: ...My stories, based on me and some friends of mine in college, and the writer wrote to it. But, yeah, that kind of happened to a girlfriend of mine who was - she used to love her some young boys, and he would remind her often that, oh, you older women. And we were, like, I don't know, 27.
MARTIN: Oh, my goodness.
BRAXTON: So he was 20. You older women - you expect us to be this, and you have to get with the times. I'm like, older women? So I thought it would be a real part to put in the movie because, you know, we wanted to tell true stories, things that really happen that you - sometimes we forget. Like, oh, my God, I forgot about that. That happened to me, too. Or, it happened to my girlfriend Naomi. Oh, my God, that's so real. We wanted it to be real stories.
MARTIN: So the thing about Lifetime - right? - we all know the deal. I mean, that's why it's comfort food. You know, the...
BRAXTON: Yes.
MARTIN: ...Typical scenario - ambitious woman moves to small town, reinvents herself, has setback, finds love with a guy. You kind of flipped the script on that in this...
BRAXTON: We did.
MARTIN: ...Movie. Would that - is that a fair way to...
BRAXTON: I think it's the perfect way to say it. I wanted it to be a little light, a little more fun, a little more - my gentleman often says to me - he'll say, you can't watch a killing movie with me, but you watch Lifetime. And the wife is going to kill the husband for cheating on her eventually, ao how come you can't watch this killing movie with me? And I'm like, OK. He has a point. (Laughter) He has a point.
MARTIN: He can watch his movies.
BRAXTON: But Lifetime gives you everything, and I thought this would just be a little lighter because it's based on my songs, and I wanted that to come across.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HE WASN'T MAN ENOUGH")
BRAXTON: (Singing) See, I've already had your man. Yeah.
MARTIN: That's Toni Braxton. Her latest movie for Lifetime is "He Wasn't Man Enough." Toni Braxton, thank you so much for talking with us.
BRAXTON: Thank you, Sis. It's so good to talk to you again.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HE WASN'T MAN ENOUGH")
BRAXTON: (Singing) What are you thinking? Did you know about us back then? Do you know I dumped your husband, girlfriend? I'm not thinking about... Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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