JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
We're continuing to celebrate Black History Month by looking back at the year that brought big moments into the culture, like protests against police brutality in the NFL, the release of Rihanna's last studio album and the end of the Obama administration, just to name a few. That year was 2016. Carla Hayden was also appointed as the librarian of Congress by President Obama that year, and she served in that role until she was fired by President Trump in 2025. She is here with us in studio now as we look back on some of the biggest moments for Black literature. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. It's so great to have you in our studios.
CARLA HAYDEN: Thank you. This is wonderful.
SUMMERS: As we get into our conversation, I just want to remind people about you. You were the first woman, first Black American to lead the Library of Congress, which is, of course, one of the largest libraries in the world. Back when you were appointed to the job in 2016, you spoke to my NPR colleague, Michel Martin, and when you talked with her, you described the library in that moment as a sanctuary, an opportunity center for so many people. That was a decade ago. What do you see the role of the library as in our society today?
HAYDEN: It's a trusted source and a trusted resource for people when they're looking in the age of misinformation and they're wondering, well, they can see the real thing. They could see Abraham Lincoln's draft of the Gettysburg Address in his own hand. They can see the real thing, and they can do research there. So it's even more important at this time for not only the Library of Congress but libraries in general to be that trusted source.
SUMMERS: I want to shift gears a bit and start to talk about all of these books. And I will just note here in our studios, you have brought some incredible books with you that have all kind of transported us back to 2016. And if I can, I want to start with a book that I know both of us love, and that is "Another Brooklyn" by Jacqueline Woodson. Tell us what made you bring that book along.
HAYDEN: It marked another landmark in Jacqueline Woodson's career. She was a - is a bestselling author of award-winning books, especially for young people, young adults. And this was her first foray into writing for adults as well. She starts from her own truths, and she is able to use her poetic voice because she writes poetry as well. And she combines that with a truth-telling. And people can relate to it. It's not as opaque as some writing is. It's very direct, but lyrical. And I think that's what grabs people. And you said that this was one of your favorite books.
SUMMERS: I love this book. So I have not read it since 2016 when it first came out, and that was a year I was a campaign reporter. I wasn't doing a ton of reading for pleasure, but I was so struck by just the clarity and the sharpness and the beauty of her writing that I think I might have to go back and pick it back up after this conversation and read it one more time.
HAYDEN: And she's a food lover, so I'll just have page 90 - I'll just do that. (Reading) Sister Loretta made us navy beans and eggplant parmesan. She said no more collard greens or lima beans. And my brother and I said, I can dig that, because we were learning to speak jive talk.
And you could just get so immersed in it. She makes the flavors come alive and making you think about it. And she's just a wonderful writer.
SUMMERS: She is. Now, another book that we were talking about before we hopped on these microphones was "The Underground Railroad" by Colson Whitehead. And for people who haven't read it, this is a book that envisions the Underground Railroad that we know as, like, a literal underground train system. Talk about this book and what made it such a standout.
HAYDEN: Well, he takes you into an imaginary world where you are so engrossed into it. I remember he was at my first, as librarian, the National Book Festival that's held every year.
SUMMERS: And that was in 2016, right?
HAYDEN: 2016 - and there were people who really thought that there was an actual underground railroad.
SUMMERS: Like, railroad with the rail tracks, the trains, the whole nine yards, yeah.
HAYDEN: Railroad and looking for it and all of that - and that just shows you how vividly he creates scenes. And this really broke through for so many people. And it also led to people wanting to do research on the real Underground Railroad. And that's what librarians love - that you can take something and then people want to know more about it.
SUMMERS: Now, Colson Whitehead spoke to NPR when this book came out, and he talked about how he made the leap of making this train literal and how he approached bringing in different parts of American history into his writing. I want to listen to what he had to say.
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COLSON WHITEHEAD: There's echoes of the Holocaust when she comes to North Carolina and there's a white supremacist state. So that, you know, initial whimsical choice to play with a metaphor allowed me to mix and match and explore different areas of American history.
SUMMERS: First of all, I just love hearing his voice again, talking about this book. Carla Hayden, what does that bring to mind for you about the way that he wrote and constructed this book?
HAYDEN: He brings in different historical facts, scenes, and he connects them. And that is a wonderful aspect of his writing that he is able to combine what the basic story he's trying to tell with all other related stories and make connections that the reader might not have made.
SUMMERS: Do you, in any way, feel like these works that we've been talking about - that they're in conversation with one another?
HAYDEN: The thread is looking at historical facts but also making things relatable to people of today. And James McBride - that's one I don't think we've...
SUMMERS: Yes, we haven't talked about that one yet.
HAYDEN: ...Talked about that.
SUMMERS: Let's get into it.
HAYDEN: In terms of history, of course, he was known for "The Color Of Water," when he talked about his own life, and "The Good Lord Bird." But the one that he brought out in 2016 was about James Brown and the American soul, "Kill 'Em And Leave." And he was able to not only tell James Brown's story, but the story of the South, South Carolina, all types of things - Michael Jackson actually going to the funeral home and sitting with the body of James Brown because that was one of his idols. And so bringing in and weaving so many things together was, I think, a through line of all of the books that we've been talking about.
SUMMERS: When you think back about these authors, are there ways that you feel their influence or their imprint now in the present day, 10 years later as we sit in 2026?
HAYDEN: One thing that comes through is that their works have endured. People are going back to them. And they produced other work. So there's a body of work for all of these authors and illustrators that will, I hope, give people a reservoir of material that they can dive into at a time that might feel somewhat challenging. We like to think that being able to be transported or get information that's contained in books could be helpful.
SUMMERS: We've been speaking with Carla Hayden. She served as librarian of Congress until 2025, and she's now a senior fellow at the Mellon Foundation. Thank you so much for dropping by our studios.
HAYDEN: Oh, thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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